Munich expected to ditch Linux/FOSS crapware and return to Windows and Office

[DFS]

<quote>
Linux pioneer Munich poised to ditch open source and return to Windows

At a meeting next week, city leaders are expected to back proposals to
switch to Windows 10 by 2021.
</quote>


http://www.techrepublic.com/article/linux-pioneer-munich-poised-to-ditch-open-source-and-return-to-windows/


Of course they are. Once you've used Windows and Office, being forced
to run Linux and LibreOffice crapola is a big step backwards.

[Tim]

Having followed this Munich project since it's inception, albeit
exclusively via the tech journals and media, my impression is that this
was a grossly mismanaged project. From the initial time line to the
requirements to support some Windows applications, to scope creep and
including the fact that the hardware was aging as the project languished it
became clear that the proponents of the Munich project are somewhat
incompetent. They took the extra steps to create their own distribution,
LiMux.
Why?
It adds another layer of complexity to the migration.

I don't believe this is the fault of Linux and open source software but
more a result of poor planning and an inability to plan for the future and
how Linux would be able to perform the current task requirements as well as
future task requirements.

Some people look at Linux, Windows, OSX as drop in substitutes or
replacements for each other and I find this to be wrong and in fact
dangerous.

It just doesn't work like that and it has less to do with the quality of
the operating systems or the applications and more to do with the goals and
current and future expectations.

This is why super computers, large corporations with integral programming
staff use Linux. The access to the source code allows modification.

A company that is already heavily dependent upon transferring data to
outside sources, has complex documents, spreadsheets and databases that are
based in one operating system, really needs to perform a deep dive into how
these documents in place will translate to the new operating system.
The same goes for processes. In the case of a government agency,
interoperability with outside agencies is a huge factor.

Companies, government, municipalities, educational institutions and so
forth have switched to Linux with little difficulty and my best guess is
that they studied the requirements and future expectations first and only
then planned the project and made the switch.

Lastly, my opinion is the people pushing the Linux project, incompetence
aside, had their own interests in mind. Prolonging their contracts and
income. The fox guarding the hen house in fact.

I'll stop rambling now.

--
Tim Whizzer
Learn about Linux here;
https://www.linux.com/what-is-linux

[Steve Carroll]

Here's the real 'writing on the wall':

"Paradoxically, given the appetite for returning to Windows, the proposal also states that the ultimate goal should be for software used by the city to run "independently of the operating system of the end user's machine", suggesting the use of web applications, virtualization and remote desktop services."

Learn Python 3.7, embrace open source tooling, learn some web development (html, css, javascript) because...

... you will be assimilated ;)

[Marek Novotny]

I thought this has been discredited a few times already. I'll believe it
if the actually switch back. I had read one of the interviews by one of
the admins and he had shed a lot of light on this. Microsoft marketing
plants false stories and continues attempted get back into the city. The
last thing Microsoft wants is a high profile success story for others to
use as a model to ditch Microsoft Windows and Office. You can bet they
are making all manner of offers to get them to switch back.

Anyone who uses Linux full time knows what it is capable of. In all
honesty, as I have said before, there is NOTHING we do at our office
that can't be done with Libre Office. Continuing to use MS Office is
just doesn't make any sense to me at all. I'd rather support open source
than fund Microsoft.

--
Marek Novotny
https://github.com/marek-novotny

[F. Russell]

On Sat, 11 Feb 2017 08:01:34 -0800, Steve Carroll wrote:

>
> "independently of the operating system of the end user's machine",

> suggesting the use of web applications ...
>

Oh my fucking God! Not web applications!

Don't these fucking idiots realize that the web is the most fucking DYSFUNCTIONAL
medium that is possible for programming? Only a fucking deluded and demented
asshole would waste time with web applications (and the programming world is
chock full of deluded and demented assholes).

The sad fact is that only about 0.01% of ALL developers have any deep and
comprehensive expertise. The remainder are, like the dumb-fuck shill, just
shoddy six-figure dilettantes riding the crest of fashion.

[F. Russell]

On Sat, 11 Feb 2017 10:52:05 -0500, Tim wrote:

>
> my impression is that this
> was a grossly mismanaged project.
>

Nah. They just forgot to factor in all of the ineradicable blank stares
on the faces of the average office workers that would result when the
critical "Start" button was removed.

Can you teach an old dog new tricks?

A dog, yes. A human, no.

[Tim]

Sadly politics is involved in these decisions. The two sides both have
their lobbyists, for lack of a better term, and this can and does influence
the decision making process.

I too have read reports of the switch back and I too will believe it when I
see it. I'm not saying it will or won't happen but the proof is in what
action is taken.

> Anyone who uses Linux full time knows what it is capable of. In all
> honesty, as I have said before, there is NOTHING we do at our office
> that can't be done with Libre Office. Continuing to use MS Office is
> just doesn't make any sense to me at all. I'd rather support open source
> than fund Microsoft.

I would as well but not at the expense of my company not being able to
perform it's tasks and generate income for me. My primary goal is to offer
a better product, service and value than my competitors do and I use
whatever means I have to in order to reach that level.
I use both Linux and Windows but no OSX. My one experience with OSX was
horrible and I vowed to never return back to that beast.

[Marek Novotny]

There is a feature you depend on in Office that has no equal in Libre
Office? Do tell.

[Silver Slimer]

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Hash: SHA256

None of this is true until Peter the Klöwn says it is.


- --
Silver Slimer
Fingerprint: e58428b2633833a3b0c9bb7e40819166642245b7
Gab.ai: @silverslimer

Boycotting mainstream media in all of its forms
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[Silver Slimer]

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I actually agree with you. The migration to Linux probably would have
worked out a lot better had they simply decided to use Redhat and been
offered the support to go with it. Their own distribution, like you
say, adds complexity which wasn't required.

- --
Silver Slimer
Fingerprint: e58428b2633833a3b0c9bb7e40819166642245b7
Gab.ai: @silverslimer

Boycotting mainstream media in all of its forms
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[Peter Köhlmann]

Silver Slimer wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA256
>
> On 2017-02-11 10:27 AM, DFS wrote:
>> <quote> Linux pioneer Munich poised to ditch open source and return
>> to Windows
>>
>> At a meeting next week, city leaders are expected to back proposals
>> to switch to Windows 10 by 2021. </quote>
>>
>>
>> http://www.techrepublic.com/article/linux-pioneer-munich-poised-to-dit
> ch-open-source-and-return-to-windows/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Of course they are. Once you've used Windows and Office, being
>> forced to run Linux and LibreOffice crapola is a big step
>> backwards.
>
> None of this is true until Peter the Klöwn says it is.
>

It isn't true. Give me linux and LibreOffice all day instead of that MS
shite

I even run LibreOffice on windows instead of MSO, even though I have MSO
available. I simply prefer LO. It is better in most aspects than MSO

And windows compared to linux? Give me a break. Windows is a non-starter in
that compare. It simply can't compete. Granted, it is better than OSX. But
that is really not hard to achieve

[Tim]

I don't think they fully understood what the current and future
requirements were. This entire project reeks of incompetence in my opinion.
And like Marek stated, Linux is fully capable of running the office where
he works. That is probably true of many places however to assume a drop in
replacement of another OS, applications and not thoroughly understand the
current and future requirements, and test them, is setting the project up
for failure.
And that applies to any migration to any alternative platform.

If this turns out to be true, and I hope it doesn't, it's going to be a
huge black eye on the Linux and open source software because that is where
the blame will unfairly rest.

It would behoove the FSF to become involved and prevent the flood of
misinformation to the media regarding the real sources of the failure from
ever starting. It's going to be impossible to un-ring the bell once the
guilty parties start trying to protect themselves.

[Omar Murad Asfour]

On Sat, 11 Feb 2017 22:10:49 +0100, Peter Köhlmann wrote:

> Silver Slimer wrote:
>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA256
>>
>> On 2017-02-11 10:27 AM, DFS wrote:
>>> <quote> Linux pioneer Munich poised to ditch open source and return to
>>> Windows
>>>
>>> At a meeting next week, city leaders are expected to back proposals to
>>> switch to Windows 10 by 2021. </quote>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.techrepublic.com/article/linux-pioneer-munich-poised-to-dit
>> ch-open-source-and-return-to-windows/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Of course they are. Once you've used Windows and Office, being forced
>>> to run Linux and LibreOffice crapola is a big step backwards.
>>
>> None of this is true until Peter the Klöwn says it is.
>>
>>
> It isn't true.

How do you know this? Where is your proof

> Give me linux and LibreOffice all day instead of that MS
> shite

Nobody asked your opinion of Linux vs Windows.
The topic is Munich abandoning Linux for Windows.

> I even run LibreOffice on windows instead of MSO, even though I have MSO
> available. I simply prefer LO. It is better in most aspects than MSO

What you prefer is not relevant, unless you are involved in the Munich
migration to Linux which would of course explain why it's so messed up.

> And windows compared to linux? Give me a break. Windows is a non-starter
> in that compare. It simply can't compete. Granted, it is better than
> OSX. But that is really not hard to achieve

Tell it to Munich. They found the opposite to be true which is why they
are moving back to Windows.

Comes down to you, Peter Kohlmann, who is mostly known to be wrong about
everything vs TechRepublic which is a well respected media site.
Sorry if I have to side with TechRepublic on this one. I'm sure you
understand.

[vallor]

"Comes down to"

This clown must think the group denizens are idiots.

--
-v

[Tim]

Apparently so.
He;s like shit stuck to the bottom of a pair of brand new Asics sneakers.
You just want it to go away.

I've emailed the fsf at in...@fsf.org regarding the Munich situation and
advised them to get involved immediately to get to the bottom of this and
present the facts before those involved with the opposition to open source
have a chance to flood the media with misinformation.
I suggest other Linux users do the same.

[William Poaster]

On 11/2/2017 22:43 in comp.os.linux.advocacy, vallor posted:

I didn't see "Omar Murad Asfour", but i imagine it's another Snot sock.
SAndman handed Snot's ass to him yet again, so I suppose Glasser will be
throwing hissy-fits & flooding the group wih his sock army.
[ None of which i'll see! :-) ]

--
The troll is but a walking shadow, a poor player that struts
and frets his hour upon the stage and then is heard no more:
his is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
(With acknowledgement to W.S.)

[Peter Köhlmann]

He is. The lying imbecile got his ass handed to him dozens of times the last
hours. So he presented yet another Snit sock

[Marek Novotny]

On 2017-02-11, Tim <myemailh...@comy.net> wrote:

// snip

> I've emailed the fsf at in...@fsf.org regarding the Munich situation and
> advised them to get involved immediately to get to the bottom of this and
> present the facts before those involved with the opposition to open source
> have a chance to flood the media with misinformation.
> I suggest other Linux users do the same.

This same story has come up a few times in the past. I remember one of
the admins coming forward and basically setting the record straight.
That maybe a few people might have a case for using actual MS Office and
that someone in marketing over at Microsoft, was basically planting
this story.

It's been discussed here already and yet nothing has happened. And now
it is coming up again. It's like discrediting something simply by lying
about it. Someone can point to Munich and say, they're using Linux. And
then someone else says, oh but they hate and they moving away from it.
Even though it never actually happens because it is a bullshit story to
begin with.

There was an admin from Munich on one of these Linux Podcasts and he
went into good detail about what they are doing, how the actually
expanding and so forth. After listening to him I walked away thinking
these are on the ball much more so than the article portrays. For one
thing these are developers themselves and contribute patches and fixes
upstream. So they're not just idiots that adopted Linux and are clueless
to manage it. They not only manage it, they develop and contribute back
to it.

I think Microsoft will just keep planting this story over and over
again attempting to discredit Linux in a very publicly referenced
success story. That's not to say it can't happen. But given that this
has cropped up previously and it was bullshit, I'd have to say it is
likely bullshit again. Today's lazy journalism is merely a rinse and
repeat affair where false stories make it out into the wild quite
easily.

[Tim]

Yes I am aware of the false stories planted in the past and my hope is that
this is just another false story however I feel it's foolish to assume that
is the case. It's important to head these things off at the inception and
cut the head off the snake as soon as possible.

I think a major fault of the Linux /foss community is that they focus on
their opinion that Linux is a superior operating system while ignoring the
integration aspect of a massive migration like the Munich situation.

A Ferrari is a superior car to a Prius but which one is more practical to
use as a daily driver to pick the kids up, groceries etc?

So it's not just a matter of being superior, there is far more involved and
I think that is where Munich didn't do their homework as others who have
successfully migrated to Linux have done.

[Snit]

On 2/11/17, 4:29 PM, in article o7o6kt$h4i$1...@dont-email.me, "Peter Köhlmann"

Now we get to see if ANY of those who troll COLA will admit to this simple
fact. So far Carroll, Vallor, and Peter Köhlmann have run in pretending
Sandman did not lie.

Jonas Eklundh lied: <https://youtu.be/5OfWsoPAg7o>. Period.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot
use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow
superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

[Silver Slimer]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

On 2017-02-11 4:10 PM, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
> Silver Slimer wrote:
>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256
>>
>> On 2017-02-11 10:27 AM, DFS wrote:
>>> <quote> Linux pioneer Munich poised to ditch open source and
>>> return to Windows
>>>
>>> At a meeting next week, city leaders are expected to back
>>> proposals to switch to Windows 10 by 2021. </quote>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.techrepublic.com/article/linux-pioneer-munich-poised-to-d
it
>>
>>>
ch-open-source-and-return-to-windows/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Of course they are. Once you've used Windows and Office,
>>> being forced to run Linux and LibreOffice crapola is a big
>>> step backwards.
>>
>> None of this is true until Peter the Klöwn says it is.
>>
>
> It isn't true. Give me linux and LibreOffice all day instead of
> that MS shite

None of that article has anything to do with you. You might want to
read the articles linked from time to time.

> I even run LibreOffice on windows instead of MSO, even though I
> have MSO available. I simply prefer LO. It is better in most
> aspects than MSO

Irrelevant.

> And windows compared to linux? Give me a break. Windows is a
> non-starter in that compare. It simply can't compete. Granted, it
> is better than OSX. But that is really not hard to achieve

Only idiots use OS X.

Take a bow, Snit.

- --
Silver Slimer
Fingerprint: e58428b2633833a3b0c9bb7e40819166642245b7
Gab.ai: @silverslimer

Boycotting mainstream media in all of its forms
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[DFS]

On 2/11/2017 4:18 PM, Tim wrote:


> If this turns out to be true, and I hope it doesn't, it's going to be a
> huge black eye on the Linux and open source software because that is where
> the blame will unfairly rest.

What's unfair about placing the blame where it belongs: on the inferior
Linux/FOSS tinker-toy hobbyware that isn't fit for its intended purpose?


"The city's human resources department (POR) said that since 2006 when
the POR started using LiMux and OpenOffice, later switching to
LibreOffice, that "the efficiency and productivity of the POR-supported
workplaces has decreased noticeably" - referencing crashes, display and
printing errors."


http://www.techrepublic.com/article/linux-pioneer-munich-poised-to-ditch-open-source-and-return-to-windows/


I understand Germany not wanting to be reliant on foreign-produced
technology (I don't like giving Microsoft money any more than the avg
Linux advocate does I bet), but when the alternative is dreck like LiMux
and LibreOffice you have to bite the bullet and buy the good software.

> It would behoove the FSF to become involved and prevent the flood of
> misinformation to the media regarding the real sources of the failure from
> ever starting. It's going to be impossible to un-ring the bell once the
> guilty parties start trying to protect themselves.

The first thing the FSF needs to do is remove Stallman from the masthead
and from the building, for his public statements supporting the
legalization of pedophilia, necrophilia, incest, bestiality and
possession of child porn "as long as no one is coerced".

[Silver Slimer]

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I don't think that it even matters if Munich migrates back and people
see Linux as a failure. We're talking about an operating system that
has taken an absolute beating from the press and users over two
decades yet still thrives and becomes more popular every day. If
Munich decides to go back to Windows, I say let them because other
cities will migrate to Linux and do it properly.

- --
Silver Slimer
Fingerprint: e58428b2633833a3b0c9bb7e40819166642245b7
Gab.ai: @silverslimer

Boycotting mainstream media in all of its forms
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[Snit]

On 2/11/17, 5:11 PM, in article o7o941$obf$1...@dont-email.me, "Silver Slimer"

<.m@nsn.s> wrote:

>> And windows compared to linux? Give me a break. Windows is a
>> non-starter in that compare. It simply can't compete. Granted, it
>> is better than OSX. But that is really not hard to achieve
>
> Only idiots use OS X.
>
> Take a bow, Snit.

My .sig is right again!

[DFS]

Keep hope alive!

[Marek Novotny]

Car analogies really do not work. I can buy several $20,000 Honda's
which will outlast the Ferrari and cost much less in the process. The
Ferrari is faster, more powerful and sexy. But it is not the better car
for the money nor will it ever be. The fact of the matter is I will get
400,000 miles on that $20,000 Honda and I will have enough left over to
buy 5 or 6 more after that. So I beg to differ on which is the better
car. I don't give a God Damn which is more sexy or faster. That's but
one benchmark of a good car.

Can your Ferrari hall around large heavy trailer? Not really. You're
going to want a nice big heavy truck for that. And we can come up with
all manner of various ways to looks at cars vs computers. In the end it
depends on what it is you're doing.

> So it's not just a matter of being superior, there is far more involved and
> I think that is where Munich didn't do their homework as others who have
> successfully migrated to Linux have done.

Now the FACT of the matter is most users simply use Office is a simple
way. That's why we create a working group of users to see if their needs
are being met. And that was most certainly done with Munich. The Linux
community and some member's collective opinions of Linux has NOTHING
to do with what's going on in Munich. Not a God Damned thing... Munich
did their homework. They're not idiots. They have successfully moved to
Linux. What we have here is nothing more than some serious ASS HURT from
Microsoft and it has become an issue with them in which they are willing
to do anything and everything to bribe their way back in because of the
profile of Munich. It is as simple as that. Don't you blame the Linux
community here. This has nothing to do with us. We're simply citing them
as a success story and Microsoft, typical, is trying to derail it. They
don't like that a FREE and OPEN operating system and office suite got
them kicked out of Munich.

So they will find a politician and fund his campaign and sway him to
rethink the software used in Munich. Some selfish idiot will decide
his needs out weigh the good that has been done for the community and
together attempt to derail this.

Just think about what this means beyond software. The fact that so many
say you need office to open a document created by the city with public
funds is bullshit. It should be done in a free and open manner. The
city funds should not be supporting a GUILTY monopolist. Not when a
perfectly good alternative exists and it is perfectly capable of
handling their needs.

[Me Sham]

Why the hell did they spend years developing their own distro for this instead of just using an existing one? Seems like the cost of this could have been substantially lower.

[DFS]

On 2/11/2017 7:21 PM, Marek Novotny wrote:

> They
> don't like that a FREE and OPEN operating system and office suite got
> them kicked out of Munich.

That never happened. It's just the wishful drooling of MS-hating Linux
fanbois.

There are still many Windows systems and apps running in Munich, because
they were judged too difficult or expensive to replace.

[Tim]

I think when the smoke clears, and assuming this story is true, it's going
to finally be revealed that those in charge of implementing the project
were inept.

Linux is no more a perfect ecosystem than Windows is, at least in my
opinion.
It's all in the execution and the requirements.
And that, again in my opinion, is where the Munich project fell flat.

[Tim]

Agreed.
You've made my point rather well.
Better than I have in fact.

>> So it's not just a matter of being superior, there is far more involved and
>> I think that is where Munich didn't do their homework as others who have
>> successfully migrated to Linux have done.
>
> Now the FACT of the matter is most users simply use Office is a simple
> way. That's why we create a working group of users to see if their needs
> are being met. And that was most certainly done with Munich. The Linux
> community and some member's collective opinions of Linux has NOTHING
> to do with what's going on in Munich. Not a God Damned thing... Munich
> did their homework. They're not idiots. They have successfully moved to
> Linux. What we have here is nothing more than some serious ASS HURT from
> Microsoft and it has become an issue with them in which they are willing
> to do anything and everything to bribe their way back in because of the
> profile of Munich. It is as simple as that. Don't you blame the Linux
> community here. This has nothing to do with us. We're simply citing them
> as a success story and Microsoft, typical, is trying to derail it. They
> don't like that a FREE and OPEN operating system and office suite got
> them kicked out of Munich.

Hey, you are the one who claimed YOUR office could do everything on Linux.
Again, you are making my point.
Whatever Microsoft is doing will all come out. Some of their nefarious
doings within the Munich project have already been revealed.
You are preaching to the choir here.

> So they will find a politician and fund his campaign and sway him to
> rethink the software used in Munich. Some selfish idiot will decide
> his needs out weigh the good that has been done for the community and
> together attempt to derail this.

And you think the other side isn't doing the same?
That's naive.
I've already stated that unfortunately politics, lobbying if you will, is
already playing a part in this migration.

> Just think about what this means beyond software. The fact that so many
> say you need office to open a document created by the city with public
> funds is bullshit. It should be done in a free and open manner. The
> city funds should not be supporting a GUILTY monopolist. Not when a
> perfectly good alternative exists and it is perfectly capable of
> handling their needs.

You are starting to sound more like a zealot here.
Just because an alternative works for YOUR office doesn't mean it works for
the Munich project.
The expectations need to be carefully defined.
You can't just make a statement like "a perfectly good alternative exists".
It doesn't work that way.

So for example, many people will say gimp is a perfectly good alternative
to Photoshop. For me that's true. Probably for you as well and most people
in this group.

Now ask that same question to a professional graphics design firm and see
what their requirements are and how they answer that question.

Again, the Munich project IMHO is a case of incompetence and not a case of
Linux being less of an operating system than Windows.

[Tim]

Microsoft did a study and it didn't come out the way they expected so they
quashed it.

http://www.itworld.com/article/2715241/open-source-tools/microsoft-won-t-release-study-that-challenged-success-of-munich-s-linux-migration.html

[Tim]

Correct.
Reeks of incompetence and pumping their own job security.

[Marek Novotny]

And what does that have to do with Munich?

> Whatever Microsoft is doing will all come out. Some of their nefarious
> doings within the Munich project have already been revealed.
> You are preaching to the choir here.
>
>> So they will find a politician and fund his campaign and sway him to
>> rethink the software used in Munich. Some selfish idiot will decide
>> his needs out weigh the good that has been done for the community and
>> together attempt to derail this.
>
> And you think the other side isn't doing the same?
> That's naive.

What other side? They've created their own distribution essentially. So
I ask you who the hell is this other side?

> I've already stated that unfortunately politics, lobbying if you will, is
> already playing a part in this migration.
>
>> Just think about what this means beyond software. The fact that so many
>> say you need office to open a document created by the city with public
>> funds is bullshit. It should be done in a free and open manner. The
>> city funds should not be supporting a GUILTY monopolist. Not when a
>> perfectly good alternative exists and it is perfectly capable of
>> handling their needs.
>
> You are starting to sound more like a zealot here.

That's not zealotry. These are public funds buying proprietary software
and providing public documents in proprietary formats. That's not the
best idea at all. There is no reason to spend public money on
proprietary closed formats when perfectly fine free and open software
and formats can do the same job at no cost to the public.

> Just because an alternative works for YOUR office doesn't mean it works for
> the Munich project.

Munich did focus groups. They did their homework here. You fucking
troll.

> The expectations need to be carefully defined.

Why don't you prove Munich didn't do their own in house testing since
you seem to be saying that. My needs have shit all to do with Munich.

> You can't just make a statement like "a perfectly good alternative exists".
> It doesn't work that way.

It sure does.

> So for example, many people will say gimp is a perfectly good alternative
> to Photoshop. For me that's true. Probably for you as well and most people
> in this group.

For me, professionally? No. Personally, yes.

> Now ask that same question to a professional graphics design firm and see
> what their requirements are and how they answer that question.

I am a professional.

> Again, the Munich project IMHO is a case of incompetence and not a case of
> Linux being less of an operating system than Windows.

In your opinion, which means jack-shit. You don't know what the fuck
you're talking about.

[RonB]

On 2017-02-11, Marek Novotny <marek....@marspolar.com> wrote:

> I thought this has been discredited a few times already. I'll believe it
> if the actually switch back. I had read one of the interviews by one of
> the admins and he had shed a lot of light on this. Microsoft marketing
> plants false stories and continues attempted get back into the city. The
> last thing Microsoft wants is a high profile success story for others to
> use as a model to ditch Microsoft Windows and Office. You can bet they
> are making all manner of offers to get them to switch back.
>
> Anyone who uses Linux full time knows what it is capable of. In all
> honesty, as I have said before, there is NOTHING we do at our office
> that can't be done with Libre Office. Continuing to use MS Office is
> just doesn't make any sense to me at all. I'd rather support open source
> than fund Microsoft.

If you read the article you'll see it's all politics (read bribes). The
party in charge now (via a coolition with another party) was against Linux
from the beginning. But nothing has been decided yet, it's up for a vote on
Tuesday (I believe).

(Subject Line changed because I wanted to.)

--
Linux -- what Windows wants to be when it grows up

[RonB]

On 2017-02-11, Omar Murad Asfour <omarm...@career.net> wrote:

> Nobody asked your opinion of Linux vs Windows.
> The topic is Munich abandoning Linux for Windows.

Nobody asked you to troll on COLA either, so shut the fuck up.

And adios asshole.

[Steve Carroll]

Seriously, though, Python 3.xx is a lot faster; even if you don't do the web stuff I'm suggesting, at the least, you should check 3.xx out. Look here:

<https://github.com/squeaky-pl/japronto>

[Tim]

Nothing.
That's my point.

Your comment about "most users using Office in a simple way" has nothing to
do with Munich either.

>> Whatever Microsoft is doing will all come out. Some of their nefarious
>> doings within the Munich project have already been revealed.
>> You are preaching to the choir here.
>>
>>> So they will find a politician and fund his campaign and sway him to
>>> rethink the software used in Munich. Some selfish idiot will decide
>>> his needs out weigh the good that has been done for the community and
>>> together attempt to derail this.
>>
>> And you think the other side isn't doing the same?
>> That's naive.
>
> What other side? They've created their own distribution essentially. So
> I ask you who the hell is this other side?

The people who are lobbying to keep Linux.
There are two sides to this situation.
Do you honestly believe that they are just sitting there doing nothing as
their project is being attacked?
I doubt it and I sure hope not.

>> I've already stated that unfortunately politics, lobbying if you will, is
>> already playing a part in this migration.
>>
>>> Just think about what this means beyond software. The fact that so many
>>> say you need office to open a document created by the city with public
>>> funds is bullshit. It should be done in a free and open manner. The
>>> city funds should not be supporting a GUILTY monopolist. Not when a
>>> perfectly good alternative exists and it is perfectly capable of
>>> handling their needs.
>>
>> You are starting to sound more like a zealot here.
>
> That's not zealotry. These are public funds buying proprietary software
> and providing public documents in proprietary formats. That's not the
> best idea at all. There is no reason to spend public money on
> proprietary closed formats when perfectly fine free and open software
> and formats can do the same job at no cost to the public.

I'm am completely against proprietary formats but it is what it is.
This project was designed to eliminate this as well as a dependency on
closed software.

The idea and concept is great.
The execution not so much.

>> Just because an alternative works for YOUR office doesn't mean it works for
>> the Munich project.
>
> Munich did focus groups. They did their homework here. You fucking
> troll.

Ahh so now you prove what you are. A zealot who can't look at facts
objectively and reach a logical conclusion.
Unless someone agrees with your opinion they are immediately deemed a
troll.

Anyone with an open mind would reply that it remains to be seen how this
plays out. That is what I have stated. I have also stated my opinion that
if this Munich migration fails it is due to incompetence in the
implementation and not Linux and open source itself.

But apparently that is not good enough for you.
Instead you prefer to blame Microsoft for this apparent failure.
You sound like a zealot to me
No loss here.
*plonk*
Bye.

[Marek Novotny]

You're going around in circles. Obviously, you're a fucking troll.

> Your comment about "most users using Office in a simple way" has nothing to
> do with Munich either.

It has everything to do with Munich.

>>> Whatever Microsoft is doing will all come out. Some of their nefarious
>>> doings within the Munich project have already been revealed.
>>> You are preaching to the choir here.
>>>
>>>> So they will find a politician and fund his campaign and sway him to
>>>> rethink the software used in Munich. Some selfish idiot will decide
>>>> his needs out weigh the good that has been done for the community and
>>>> together attempt to derail this.
>>>
>>> And you think the other side isn't doing the same?
>>> That's naive.
>>
>> What other side? They've created their own distribution essentially. So
>> I ask you who the hell is this other side?
>
> The people who are lobbying to keep Linux.

What we have here is Microsoft spreading FUD. Linux isn't on the
chopping block. Microsoft is trying to discredit Linux by spreading FUD
and perhaps going further getting new city officials into a position in
which that can become a reality. It still has to be voted *if* it gets
the far. You're putting the cart before the horse.

> There are two sides to this situation.
> Do you honestly believe that they are just sitting there doing nothing as
> their project is being attacked?
> I doubt it and I sure hope not.
>
>>> I've already stated that unfortunately politics, lobbying if you will, is
>>> already playing a part in this migration.
>>>
>>>> Just think about what this means beyond software. The fact that so many
>>>> say you need office to open a document created by the city with public
>>>> funds is bullshit. It should be done in a free and open manner. The
>>>> city funds should not be supporting a GUILTY monopolist. Not when a
>>>> perfectly good alternative exists and it is perfectly capable of
>>>> handling their needs.
>>>
>>> You are starting to sound more like a zealot here.
>>
>> That's not zealotry. These are public funds buying proprietary software
>> and providing public documents in proprietary formats. That's not the
>> best idea at all. There is no reason to spend public money on
>> proprietary closed formats when perfectly fine free and open software
>> and formats can do the same job at no cost to the public.
>
> I'm am completely against proprietary formats but it is what it is.
> This project was designed to eliminate this as well as a dependency on
> closed software.
>
> The idea and concept is great.
> The execution not so much.

I don't know why you keep saying that. You'll pulling bullshit out of
ass.

>>> Just because an alternative works for YOUR office doesn't mean it works for
>>> the Munich project.
>>
>> Munich did focus groups. They did their homework here. You fucking
>> troll.
>
> Ahh so now you prove what you are. A zealot who can't look at facts
> objectively and reach a logical conclusion.
> Unless someone agrees with your opinion they are immediately deemed a
> troll.

What facts, show me one that backs up your claim.

> Anyone with an open mind would reply that it remains to be seen how this
> plays out. That is what I have stated. I have also stated my opinion that
> if this Munich migration fails it is due to incompetence in the
> implementation and not Linux and open source itself.

And you'd be wrong. If it fails it fails because Microsoft bought
themselves government influence. It's that simple. This is not about
Linux failing. It's about Microsoft trying to discredit Linux. Get a
fucking clue.

> But apparently that is not good enough for you.

No it's not good enough. You're being an idiot.

> Instead you prefer to blame Microsoft for this apparent failure.

There is no failure here. What we have here is your trolling. Acting
like a linux user when you clearly are not.

> You sound like a zealot to me
> No loss here.
> *plonk*

Fuck you, go crawl back to your shit hole you fucking troll.

> Bye.

[Omar Murad Asfour]

Funny that "Tim" used your own arguments and statements against you and
he effectively destroyed you but yet you call Tim a troll?
Sounds like you are bitter that you have been made an ass of.

Not that it matters of course because it won't be long before the other
mindless Linux herd members come along and categorically defend you,
without actually looking at the thread of course, simple because you are
one of them.

From a psychological point this is fascinating.
It's like the Linux herd is just a herd of lemmings.
Say what they want to hear and they sit still.
Oppose them in any way, even minor, and they all jump off the cliff in
unison.
Fascinating.

[Omar Murad Asfour]

Because they are idiots.

[Omar Murad Asfour]

Yawn.
You are repeating your false claims Marek.
Just like you do with snit when he wipes the floor with your ass.

[Omar Murad Asfour]

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 01:17:50 +0000, RonB wrote:

> On 2017-02-11, Omar Murad Asfour <omarm...@career.net> wrote:
>
>> Nobody asked your opinion of Linux vs Windows. The topic is Munich
>> abandoning Linux for Windows.
>
> Nobody asked you to troll on COLA either, so shut the fuck up.
>
> And adios asshole.

Who cares what you think?

Linux is dead in Munich.

http://www.techrepublic.com/article/linux-pioneer-munich-poised-to-ditch-
open-source-and-return-to-windows/

[vallor]

This creeper is full of so much shit, his eyes must be brown.

*plonk*

--
-v

[Steve Carroll]

Actually, he's full of Snit:

<2e3e3587-f7bf-4d9c...@googlegroups.com>

[Steve Carroll]

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[Marek Novotny]

On 2017-02-12, Steve Carroll <fretw...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Snit]

On 2/11/17, 6:28 PM, in article 3lot1p79hh2r$.jeexyrz6xo8b$.d...@40tude.net,

"Tim" <myemailh...@comy.net> wrote:

> Anyone with an open mind would reply that it remains to be seen how this
> plays out. That is what I have stated. I have also stated my opinion that
> if this Munich migration fails it is due to incompetence in the
> implementation and not Linux and open source itself.

So have an open mind but if it does not go the way you want blame people you
have never met.

LOL!

Yeah, your mind is very open.

[Snit]

On 2/11/17, 5:36 PM, in article o7oahu$sbq$1...@dont-email.me, "DFS"

For basic needs desktop Linux can be an excellent and cheaper alternative.
But if you want to rise about the lowest common denominator it is not likely
to please you.

[Snit]

On 2/11/17, 5:21 PM, in article
qumdncTzo_wMNwLF...@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"

<marek....@marspolar.com> wrote:

>> So it's not just a matter of being superior, there is far more involved and
>> I think that is where Munich didn't do their homework as others who have
>> successfully migrated to Linux have done.
>
> Now the FACT of the matter is most users simply use Office is a simple
> way. That's why we create a working group of users to see if their needs
> are being met. And that was most certainly done with Munich.

For very simple things -- pretty much the lowest common denominator of
desktop usage -- Linux works well and is cheaper. If that serves their needs
it is a great choice.

> The Linux community and some member's collective opinions of Linux has NOTHING
> to do with what's going on in Munich. Not a God Damned thing... Munich did
> their homework. They're not idiots. They have successfully moved to Linux.

I can accept that... same thing with those groups which have NOT moved to
Linux: many did their homework well.

> What we have here is nothing more than some serious ASS HURT from Microsoft
> and it has become an issue with them in which they are willing to do anything
> and everything to bribe their way back in because of the profile of Munich.

Support?

> It is as simple as that.

I use that phrase a lot. By the logic of COLA you and I are the same person.

> Don't you blame the Linux community here. This has nothing to do with us.
> We're simply citing them as a success story and Microsoft, typical, is trying
> to derail it. They don't like that a FREE and OPEN operating system and office
> suite got them kicked out of Munich.
>
> So they will find a politician and fund his campaign and sway him to rethink
> the software used in Munich. Some selfish idiot will decide his needs out
> weigh the good that has been done for the community and together attempt to
> derail this.

Support?

> Just think about what this means beyond software. The fact that so many say
> you need office to open a document created by the city with public funds is
> bullshit. It should be done in a free and open manner.

Agree: but for this to happen we need an open source tool that competes
better.

> The city funds should not be supporting a GUILTY monopolist. Not when a
> perfectly good alternative exists and it is perfectly capable of handling
> their needs.

It is perfectly adequate for pretty basic needs. But people often want more
than that.

[Chris Ahlstrom]

Marek Novotny wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> I think Microsoft will just keep planting this story over and over
> again attempting to discredit Linux in a very publicly referenced
> success story. That's not to say it can't happen. But given that this
> has cropped up previously and it was bullshit, I'd have to say it is
> likely bullshit again. Today's lazy journalism is merely a rinse and
> repeat affair where false stories make it out into the wild quite
> easily.

Take a gander at this...; parts of it read like a Nazi tract:

http://antitrust.slated.org/www.iowaconsumercase.org/011607/3000/PX03096.pdf

There's even a mention in there of trying to establish Win32 as the defacto
API of the Mac OS!

Partial quote:

I have mentioned before the “stacked panel.” Panel discussions naturally
favor alliances of relatively weak partners — our usual opposition. For
example, an “unbiased” panel on OLE vs. OpenDoc would contain
representatives of the backers of OLE (Microsoft) and the Backers of
OpenDoc (Apple, IBM, Novell, WordPerfect, OMG, etc.). Thus, we find
ourselves outnumbered in almost every “naturally occurring” panel debate.

A stacked panel, on the other hand, is like a stacked deck: it is packed
with people who, on the face of things, should be neutral, but who are in
fact strong supporters of our technology. The key to stacking a panel is
being able to choose the moderator. Most conference organizers allow the
moderator to select die panel, so if you can pick the moderator, you win.
Since you can’t expect representatives of our competitors to speak on
your behalf, you have to get the moderator to agree to having only
“independent ISVs” on the panel. No one from Microsoft or any other
formal backer of the competing technologies would be allowed -just ISVs
who have to use this stuff in the “real world.” Sounds marvellously
independent doesn’t it? In feet, it allows us to stack the panel with
ISVs that back our cause. Thus, the “independent” panel ends up telling
the audience that our technology beats the others hands down. Get the
press to cover this panel, and you’ve got a major win on your hands.

Finding a moderator is key to setting up a stacked panel The best sources
of pliable moderators are:

Analysts: Analysts sell out – that’s their business model But they are
very concerned that they never look like they are selling out, so that
makes them very prickly to work with.

Consultants: These guys are your best bets as moderators. Get a
well-known consultant on your side early, but don’t let him publish
anything blatantly pro-Microsoft. Then, get him to propose himself to the
conference organizers as a moderator, whenever a panel opportunity comes
up. Since he’s well-known, but apparently independent, he’ll be accepted
– one less thing for the constantly-overworked conference organizer to
worry about, right?

Gathering intelligence on enemy activities is critical to the success of
the Slog. We need to know who their allies are and what differences exist
between them and their allies (there are always sources of tension
between allies), so that we can find ways to split ‘em apart
Reading the trade press, lurking on newsgroups, attending conferences,
and (above all) talking to ISVs is essential to gathering this
intelligence.

MS-PCA1913194
HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL
Generalized Evangelism Timeline Microsoft Confidential



--
You will meet an important person who will help you advance professionally.

[Steve Carroll]

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[Marek Novotny]

It's a good catch. I was writing a big long reply but deleted it and
started over with something simpler. They are a rich company willing to
do what it takes to win. And then there is this small Linux community
dealing with a bunch of trolling idiots that like to think Microsoft is
the answer to everything. They're the zealots.

[Marek Novotny]

On 2017-02-12, Steve Carroll <fretw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Saturday, February 11, 2017 at 10:08:06 PM UTC-7, Marek Novotny wrote:
>> On 2017-02-12, Steve Carroll <fretw...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[DFS]

On 2/11/2017 12:20 PM, Marek Novotny wrote:

> There is a feature you depend on in Office that has no equal in Libre
> Office? Do tell.


superiority

[DFS]

On 2/11/2017 7:21 PM, Marek Novotny wrote:

> What we have here is nothing more than some serious ASS HURT from
> Microsoft and it has become an issue with them in which they are willing
> to do anything and everything to bribe their way back in because of the

> profile of Munich. It is as simple as that.


What a butthurt, poor loser you are, m4r3K.

[Peter Köhlmann]

To what? EDLIN?

[Steve Carroll]

On Sunday, February 12, 2017 at 10:08:07 AM UTC-7, Marek Novotny wrote:
> On 2017-02-12, Steve Carroll <fretw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Saturday, February 11, 2017 at 10:08:06 PM UTC-7, Marek Novotny wrote:
> >> On 2017-02-12, Steve Carroll <fretw...@gmail.com> wrote:


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[DFS]

On 2/11/2017 8:15 PM, RonB wrote:


> If you read the article you'll see it's all politics (read bribes). The
> party in charge now (via a coolition with another party) was against Linux
> from the beginning. But nothing has been decided yet, it's up for a vote on
> Tuesday (I believe).
>
> (Subject Line changed because I wanted to.)

Because you're a child.

[DFS]

On 2/11/2017 7:49 PM, Tim wrote:

> On Sat, 11 Feb 2017 19:36:45 -0500, DFS wrote:
>
>> On 2/11/2017 7:21 PM, Marek Novotny wrote:
>>

>>> They
>>> don't like that a FREE and OPEN operating system and office suite got
>>> them kicked out of Munich.
>>
>>

>> That never happened. It's just the wishful drooling of MS-hating Linux
>> fanbois.
>>
>> There are still many Windows systems and apps running in Munich, because
>> they were judged too difficult or expensive to replace.
>

> Microsoft did a study and it didn't come out the way they expected so they
> quashed it.
>
> http://www.itworld.com/article/2715241/open-source-tools/microsoft-won-t-release-study-that-challenged-success-of-munich-s-linux-migration.html


Wrong.

"'The study was commissioned by Microsoft to HP Consulting for internal
purposes only,' said Microsoft's German communications manager Astrid
Aupperle"

[Marek Novotny]

On 2017-02-12, Steve Carroll <fretw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sunday, February 12, 2017 at 10:08:07 AM UTC-7, Marek Novotny wrote:
>> On 2017-02-12, Steve Carroll <fretw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Saturday, February 11, 2017 at 10:08:06 PM UTC-7, Marek Novotny wrote:
>> >> On 2017-02-12, Steve Carroll <fretw...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Steve Carroll]

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[GreyCloud]

That's just snit playing his sicko games.

[Marek Novotny]

On 2017-02-12, Steve Carroll <fretw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sunday, February 12, 2017 at 10:41:48 AM UTC-7, Marek Novotny wrote:
>> On 2017-02-12, Steve Carroll <fretw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Sunday, February 12, 2017 at 10:08:07 AM UTC-7, Marek Novotny wrote:
>> >> On 2017-02-12, Steve Carroll <fretw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > On Saturday, February 11, 2017 at 10:08:06 PM UTC-7, Marek Novotny wrote:
>> >> >> On 2017-02-12, Steve Carroll <fretw...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Snit]

On 2/12/17, 11:40 AM, in article o7qa3l$cab$8...@dont-email.me, "GreyCloud"

My .sig is right again!

[Snit]

On 2/12/17, 11:40 AM, in article o7qa3l$cab$8...@dont-email.me, "GreyCloud"
<Cum...@mist.com> wrote:

[Slippy]

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 12:06:42 -0700, Snit wrote:

> On 2/12/17, 11:40 AM, in article o7qa3l$cab$8...@dont-email.me, "GreyCloud"
> <Cum...@mist.com> wrote:
>
>> On 02/11/2017 08:04 PM, vallor wrote:
>>> On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 02:47:40 +0000, Omar Murad Asfour wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 01:17:50 +0000, RonB wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2017-02-11, Omar Murad Asfour <omarm...@career.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Nobody asked your opinion of Linux vs Windows. The topic is Munich
>>>>>> abandoning Linux for Windows.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nobody asked you to troll on COLA either, so shut the fuck up.
>>>>>
>>>>> And adios asshole.
>>>>
>>>> Who cares what you think?
>>>>
>>>> Linux is dead in Munich.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.techrepublic.com/article/linux-pioneer-munich-poised-to-
>>> ditch-
>>>> open-source-and-return-to-windows/
>>>
>>> This creeper is full of so much shit, his eyes must be brown.
>>>
>>> *plonk*
>>>
>>
>> That's just snit playing his sicko games.
>>
> My .sig is right again!

Sure is.
You own this group snit.
The others are mere amateurs.

[Slippy]

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 12:06:48 -0700, Snit wrote:

> On 2/12/17, 11:40 AM, in article o7qa3l$cab$8...@dont-email.me, "GreyCloud"
> <Cum...@mist.com> wrote:
>
>> On 02/11/2017 08:04 PM, vallor wrote:
>>> On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 02:47:40 +0000, Omar Murad Asfour wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 01:17:50 +0000, RonB wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2017-02-11, Omar Murad Asfour <omarm...@career.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Nobody asked your opinion of Linux vs Windows. The topic is Munich
>>>>>> abandoning Linux for Windows.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nobody asked you to troll on COLA either, so shut the fuck up.
>>>>>
>>>>> And adios asshole.
>>>>
>>>> Who cares what you think?
>>>>
>>>> Linux is dead in Munich.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.techrepublic.com/article/linux-pioneer-munich-poised-to-
>>> ditch-
>>>> open-source-and-return-to-windows/
>>>
>>> This creeper is full of so much shit, his eyes must be brown.
>>>
>>> *plonk*
>>>
>>
>> That's just snit playing his sicko games.
>>
> My .sig is right again!

[Snit]

On 2/12/17, 12:12 PM, in article o7qc2d$sia$1...@gioia.aioe.org, "Slippy"

I just wish they could prove me wrong and actually talk about tech. Some are
working on it... and I commend them for it. But they can only do so for a
short time before returning to proving my .sig right.

[Marek Novotny]

On 2017-02-12, Slippy <posta...@webdev.net> wrote:
-9999 bye bye sock

[Omar Murad Asfour]

+1
So true.

[Omar Murad Asfour]

+1
True statement.

[Omar Murad Asfour]

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 06:58:25 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

> Marek Novotny wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> I think Microsoft will just keep planting this story over and over
>> again attempting to discredit Linux in a very publicly referenced
>> success story. That's not to say it can't happen. But given that this
>> has cropped up previously and it was bullshit, I'd have to say it is
>> likely bullshit again. Today's lazy journalism is merely a rinse and
>> repeat affair where false stories make it out into the wild quite
>> easily.
>
> Take a gander at this...

>http://www.techrepublic.com/article/linux-pioneer-munich-poised-to-ditch-
open-source-and-return-to-windows/

Get ready for the users productivity to increase 10 fold or more.
Nothing stunts productivity, error reduction and efficiency like Linux
does.
In fact the Linux advocates in COLA are completely unable to show how
Linux increases P.E.E.
They run from the question every time it's asked.

[Steve Carroll]

On Sunday, February 12, 2017 at 11:42:26 AM UTC-7, Marek Novotny wrote:


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[Marek Novotny]

On 2017-02-12, Steve Carroll <fretw...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sunday, February 12, 2017 at 11:42:26 AM UTC-7, Marek Novotny wrote:

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[Steve Carroll]

On Sunday, February 12, 2017 at 1:49:20 PM UTC-7, Marek Novotny wrote:

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[Chris Ahlstrom]

Omar Murad Asfour wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> Omar the Vampire/ He made my life a wreck/
> Omar the Vampire/ He got ahold of my girl's neck/
> He stole my woman away from me one night/
> Didn't even have to kiss here all it took just one bite/

I snipped the troll's idiocy and replaced it with something more sensible.
At best, his cavils *might* apply to OpenOffice.

Which runs on Windows, don't cha know.

"Omar" just can't accept that his beloved Microsoft is just another
wealthy corporate thug flooding government with shills, fake "consulting"
organizations and fake "results", lobbyists, and fake news.

Who was it that said something like "Microsoft will lose money for years and
years in order to prevent a competitor from making money".

--
Debian Hint #40: If you install the command-not-found package, attempting to
run a command you don't have installed will tell you what package to install to
obtain that command.

[Snit]

On 2/12/17, 2:50 PM, in article o7qljd$mo1$3...@dont-email.me, "Chris Ahlstrom"

<OFee...@teleworm.us> wrote:

> Omar Murad Asfour wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> Omar the Vampire/ He made my life a wreck/
>> Omar the Vampire/ He got ahold of my girl's neck/
>> He stole my woman away from me one night/
>> Didn't even have to kiss here all it took just one bite/
>
> I snipped the troll's idiocy and replaced it with something more sensible.
> At best, his cavils *might* apply to OpenOffice.
>
> Which runs on Windows, don't cha know.

Both LibreOffice and OpenOffice run on the competition.

Sadly, on Linux, they do little above the LCD.

...

[Marek Novotny]

On 2017-02-12, Chris Ahlstrom <OFee...@teleworm.us> wrote:
> Omar Murad Asfour wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> Omar the Vampire/ He made my life a wreck/
>> Omar the Vampire/ He got ahold of my girl's neck/
>> He stole my woman away from me one night/
>> Didn't even have to kiss here all it took just one bite/
>
> I snipped the troll's idiocy and replaced it with something more sensible.
> At best, his cavils *might* apply to OpenOffice.
>
> Which runs on Windows, don't cha know.
>
> "Omar" just can't accept that his beloved Microsoft is just another
> wealthy corporate thug flooding government with shills, fake "consulting"
> organizations and fake "results", lobbyists, and fake news.
>
> Who was it that said something like "Microsoft will lose money for years and
> years in order to prevent a competitor from making money".

I don't know who said that but it's a fine quote. Microsoft's Exchange
and back office server seems like a strong product to me. While I don't
like Outlook or Exchange it does give customers a way to deal with email
in their organization. I still have yet to see someone else tackle that
in a meaningful way. Zimbra does to a degree. Lotus Notes was the best
competition Exchange had for a while, but too many people feel that the
groupware solution isn't to their liking. I loved Notes. I know a few
people way more into it in that I ever was.

If there is one thing I'd really like to see it's a simple to setup and
manage enterprise email backed by education and an on-going evolving
development cycle. I don't even much care for Evolution and that's just
a client. I'd rather use Thunderbird than Evolution.

The Zimbra client is good, but Java and it doesn't respect DPI settings
and in many cases it won't even install as it still has some rather
outdated dependencies.

Zimbra if it went fully open source. And I mean those enterprise add-ons
as well. And if maybe someone like RedHat or Canonical backed it with on
going development. That might have a shot.

I don't like the idea of everything and anything going to the cloud. If
I owned the company, I'd want to own my email servers and I'd want that
to be fairly simple to manage and secure.

[William Poaster]

On 12/2/2017 17:14 in comp.os.linux.advocacy, Peter Köhlmann posted:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

> To what? EDLIN?

LOL

--
The troll is but a walking shadow, a poor player that struts
and frets his hour upon the stage and then is heard no more:
his is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
(With acknowledgement to W.S.)

[Marek Novotny]

On 2017-02-12, William Poaster <w...@dev.null> wrote:
> On 12/2/2017 17:14 in comp.os.linux.advocacy, Peter Köhlmann posted:
>
>> DFS wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/11/2017 12:20 PM, Marek Novotny wrote:
>>>
>>>> There is a feature you depend on in Office that has no equal in Libre
>>>> Office? Do tell.
>>>
>>> superiority
>
> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!
>
>> To what? EDLIN?
>
> LOL

That was pretty funny... Still I have to say that Microsoft office is
better than Libre Office as a virus delivery platform. Works super well
for that...

[Marek Novotny]

On 2017-02-12, Steve Carroll <fretw...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sunday, February 12, 2017 at 1:49:20 PM UTC-7, Marek Novotny wrote:

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[Silver Slimer]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

On 2017-02-12 2:18 PM, Marek Novotny wrote:
> On 2017-02-12, Slippy <posta...@webdev.net> wrote: -9999 bye bye
> sock

Funny, I didn't see those posts. I guess they were posted through
aioe.org or mixmin.net.


- --
Silver Slimer
Fingerprint: e58428b2633833a3b0c9bb7e40819166642245b7
Gab.ai: @silverslimer

Boycotting mainstream media in all of its forms
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[Snit]

On 2/12/17, 3:39 PM, in article
kKidnXeiQIO5eT3F...@giganews.com, "Marek Novotny"

<marek....@marspolar.com> wrote:

> On 2017-02-12, Chris Ahlstrom <OFee...@teleworm.us> wrote:
>> Omar Murad Asfour wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>
>>> Omar the Vampire/ He made my life a wreck/
>>> Omar the Vampire/ He got ahold of my girl's neck/
>>> He stole my woman away from me one night/
>>> Didn't even have to kiss here all it took just one bite/
>>
>> I snipped the troll's idiocy and replaced it with something more sensible.
>> At best, his cavils *might* apply to OpenOffice.
>>
>> Which runs on Windows, don't cha know.
>>
>> "Omar" just can't accept that his beloved Microsoft is just another
>> wealthy corporate thug flooding government with shills, fake "consulting"
>> organizations and fake "results", lobbyists, and fake news.
>>
>> Who was it that said something like "Microsoft will lose money for years and
>> years in order to prevent a competitor from making money".
>
> I don't know who said that but it's a fine quote. Microsoft's Exchange
> and back office server seems like a strong product to me. While I don't
> like Outlook or Exchange it does give customers a way to deal with email
> in their organization. I still have yet to see someone else tackle that
> in a meaningful way.

FirstClass does a good job of this -- though I do not know how much overlap
there is (and it has been a LONG time since I ran a FirstClass Server):

<http://www.opentext.com/what-we-do/products/specialty-technologies/firstcla
ss> OR <https://goo.gl/owafPq>

> Zimbra does to a degree. Lotus Notes was the best
> competition Exchange had for a while, but too many people feel that the
> groupware solution isn't to their liking. I loved Notes. I know a few
> people way more into it in that I ever was.
>
> If there is one thing I'd really like to see it's a simple to setup and
> manage enterprise email backed by education and an on-going evolving
> development cycle. I don't even much care for Evolution and that's just
> a client. I'd rather use Thunderbird than Evolution.
>
> The Zimbra client is good, but Java and it doesn't respect DPI settings
> and in many cases it won't even install as it still has some rather
> outdated dependencies.
>
> Zimbra if it went fully open source. And I mean those enterprise add-ons
> as well. And if maybe someone like RedHat or Canonical backed it with on
> going development. That might have a shot.
>
> I don't like the idea of everything and anything going to the cloud. If
> I owned the company, I'd want to own my email servers and I'd want that
> to be fairly simple to manage and secure.


--

[Marek Novotny]

On 2017-02-12, Silver Slimer <> wrote:
>
> On 2017-02-12 2:18 PM, Marek Novotny wrote:
>> On 2017-02-12, Slippy <posta...@webdev.net> wrote: -9999 bye bye
>> sock
>
> Funny, I didn't see those posts. I guess they were posted through
> aioe.org or mixmin.net.

The mentally retarded also have access to usenet.

[Peter Köhlmann]

William Poaster wrote:

> On 12/2/2017 17:14 in comp.os.linux.advocacy, Peter Köhlmann posted:
>
>> DFS wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/11/2017 12:20 PM, Marek Novotny wrote:
>>>
>>>> There is a feature you depend on in Office that has no equal in Libre
>>>> Office? Do tell.
>>>
>>> superiority
>
> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!
>
>> To what? EDLIN?
>
> LOL
>

Well, if MSO is really superior to LO, at least nobody has yet pointed out
in what way.
Just claiming that it is better does not cut it. The MS supporters at least
should be able to tell us *exactly* what really *is* superior. I have not
yet found anything at all

[William Poaster]

On 12/2/2017 22:43 in comp.os.linux.advocacy, Marek Novotny posted:

I'd say that M$ Windows, Office & Servers are superior platforms for
delivering viruses & trojans of every kind!
About the *only* thing they are superior at.

[DFS]

On 2/12/2017 4:50 PM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

> Who was it that said something like "Microsoft will lose money for years and
> years in order to prevent a competitor from making money".

One of you lying Linux idiots.

[DFS]

On 2/12/2017 6:32 PM, Peter Köhlmann wrote:


> Well, if MSO is really superior to LO, at least nobody has yet pointed out
> in what way.

Liar. Several times I showed you a variety of things MS Office excels
at vs LO.

> Just claiming that it is better does not cut it. The MS supporters at least
> should be able to tell us *exactly* what really *is* superior. I have not
> yet found anything at all

That's because you don't know what you're looking at.

[Peter Köhlmann]

DFS wrote:

> On 2/12/2017 6:32 PM, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>
>
>> Well, if MSO is really superior to LO, at least nobody has yet pointed
>> out in what way.
>
> Liar. Several times I showed you a variety of things MS Office excels
> at vs LO.

Not that I remember. Are you certain that you did? And *what* exactly was
superior?

>
>> Just claiming that it is better does not cut it. The MS supporters at
>> least should be able to tell us *exactly* what really *is* superior. I
>> have not yet found anything at all
>
> That's because you don't know what you're looking at.

I know what I am looking for. And so far *nothing at all* was better in MSO.
Instead I found some things which work in LO but not in MSO

So come on, please don't be shy. Tell us what is better in MSO

[Snit]

On 2/12/17, 4:52 PM, in article o7qsdc$gpf$1...@dont-email.me, "Peter Köhlmann"

<peter-k...@t-online.de> wrote:

> DFS wrote:
>
>> On 2/12/2017 6:32 PM, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Well, if MSO is really superior to LO, at least nobody has yet pointed
>>> out in what way.
>>
>> Liar. Several times I showed you a variety of things MS Office excels
>> at vs LO.
>
> Not that I remember.

Easy to show!

* OS / Word Processor Comparison: <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>
* LibreOffice oddities: <https://youtu.be/afPVONgoxMA>

Frankly, though, I doubt you will be able to follow the steps shown.

> Are you certain that you did? And *what* exactly was superior?

Hey, just show LibreOffice doing what the competition does and NOT having
the oddities I show.

But you NEVER will.

>>> Just claiming that it is better does not cut it. The MS supporters at
>>> least should be able to tell us *exactly* what really *is* superior. I
>>> have not yet found anything at all
>>
>> That's because you don't know what you're looking at.
>
> I know what I am looking for. And so far *nothing at all* was better in MSO.

Well, it is free and it works well for minimal needs. Sounds like a good fit
for you.

> Instead I found some things which work in LO but not in MSO

By all means do show them!

> So come on, please don't be shy. Tell us what is better in MSO

I did... but you will just troll over it. Count on it.

[Sargent Bumblebee]

On Sat, 11 Feb 2017 22:51:16 +0000, William Poaster wrote:


> I didn't see "Omar Murad Asfour", but i imagine it's another Snot sock.
> SAndman handed Snot's ass to him yet again, so I suppose Glasser will be
> throwing hissy-fits & flooding the group wih his sock army.
> [ None of which i'll see! :-) ]

Still working in the field of janitorial engineering William Poaster?
At least snit works as a teacher, a job that requires brains.
Any idiot can plunge a toilet although I suspect a professional like you
can probably out plunge the average layperson.

[Snit]

On 2/12/17, 5:14 PM, in article o7qtos$1r2o$5...@gioia.aioe.org, "Sargent

Even if he is a janitor, which I have no clue if that is true, so what?
Really... his private life is his own.

[DFS]

On 2/12/2017 6:52 PM, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
> DFS wrote:
>
>> On 2/12/2017 6:32 PM, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Well, if MSO is really superior to LO, at least nobody has yet pointed
>>> out in what way.
>>
>> Liar. Several times I showed you a variety of things MS Office excels
>> at vs LO.
>
> Not that I remember. Are you certain that you did? And *what* exactly was
> superior?

I've told you and cola many times. I'm sick of repeating it.

Either you lamers will learn how MS Office is very superior to LO, or
you won't.

>>> Just claiming that it is better does not cut it. The MS supporters at
>>> least should be able to tell us *exactly* what really *is* superior. I
>>> have not yet found anything at all
>>
>> That's because you don't know what you're looking at.
>
> I know what I am looking for. And so far *nothing at all* was better in MSO.
> Instead I found some things which work in LO but not in MSO
>
> So come on, please don't be shy. Tell us what is better in MSO

I've posted lists probably 30x, and a bunch were replies directly to you.

[Slippy]

[Snit]

On 2/12/17, 5:20 PM, in article o7qtrl$ln3$1...@dont-email.me, "DFS"

<nos...@dfs.com> wrote:

> On 2/12/2017 6:52 PM, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>> DFS wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/12/2017 6:32 PM, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Well, if MSO is really superior to LO, at least nobody has yet pointed
>>>> out in what way.
>>>
>>> Liar. Several times I showed you a variety of things MS Office excels
>>> at vs LO.
>>
>> Not that I remember. Are you certain that you did? And *what* exactly was
>> superior?
>
> I've told you and cola many times. I'm sick of repeating it.

Even when he is provided with videos he is unable to replicate steps.

> Either you lamers will learn how MS Office is very superior to LO, or
> you won't.

He cannot even replicate simple tasks which show basic KDE bugs.

>>>> Just claiming that it is better does not cut it. The MS supporters at
>>>> least should be able to tell us *exactly* what really *is* superior. I
>>>> have not yet found anything at all
>>>
>>> That's because you don't know what you're looking at.
>>
>> I know what I am looking for. And so far *nothing at all* was better in MSO.
>> Instead I found some things which work in LO but not in MSO
>>
>> So come on, please don't be shy. Tell us what is better in MSO
>
>
> I've posted lists probably 30x, and a bunch were replies directly to you.

I would love to see the list.

[Snit]

On 2/12/17, 5:19 PM, in article o7qu2i$1s61$1...@gioia.aioe.org, "Slippy"

<posta...@webdev.net> wrote:

> On Mon, 13 Feb 2017 00:14:20 +0000 (UTC), Sargent Bumblebee wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 11 Feb 2017 22:51:16 +0000, William Poaster wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I didn't see "Omar Murad Asfour", but i imagine it's another Snot sock.
>>> SAndman handed Snot's ass to him yet again, so I suppose Glasser will be
>>> throwing hissy-fits & flooding the group wih his sock army.
>>> [ None of which i'll see! :-) ]
>>
>> Still working in the field of janitorial engineering William Poaster?
>> At least snit works as a teacher, a job that requires brains.
>> Any idiot can plunge a toilet although I suspect a professional like you
>> can probably out plunge the average layperson.
>
> Even if he is a janitor, which I have no clue if that is true, so what?
> Really... his private life is his own.

Could not have said it better myself. :)

[Silver Slimer]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

On 2017-02-12 6:17 PM, Marek Novotny wrote:
> On 2017-02-12, Silver Slimer <> wrote:
>>
>> On 2017-02-12 2:18 PM, Marek Novotny wrote:
>>> On 2017-02-12, Slippy <posta...@webdev.net> wrote: -9999 bye
>>> bye sock
>>
>> Funny, I didn't see those posts. I guess they were posted
>> through aioe.org or mixmin.net.
>
> The mentally retarded also have access to usenet.

Well, the same way that virtually every IRC channel banned *!*@aol.com
since around 1994, I don't see any reason to keep mixmin.net or
aioe.org around since nothing but garbage comes out of both.

- --
Silver Slimer
Fingerprint: e58428b2633833a3b0c9bb7e40819166642245b7
Gab.ai: @silverslimer

Boycotting mainstream media in all of its forms
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[Silver Slimer]

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Screencasting!

Seriously though, Word allows me to rotate an image in any angle
without needing to open up a different program. To me, that's pretty nea
t.

- --
Silver Slimer
Fingerprint: e58428b2633833a3b0c9bb7e40819166642245b7
Gab.ai: @silverslimer

Boycotting mainstream media in all of its forms
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[Snit]

On 2/12/17, 5:55 PM, in article o7r02c$qk8$3...@dont-email.me, "Silver Slimer"

<.m@nsn.s> wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA256
>
> On 2017-02-12 6:32 PM, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>> William Poaster wrote:
>>
>>> On 12/2/2017 17:14 in comp.os.linux.advocacy, Peter Köhlmann
>>> posted:
>>>
>>>> DFS wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2/11/2017 12:20 PM, Marek Novotny wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> There is a feature you depend on in Office that has no
>>>>>> equal in Libre Office? Do tell.
>>>>>
>>>>> superiority
>>>
>>> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!
>>>
>>>> To what? EDLIN?
>>>
>>> LOL
>>>
>>
>> Well, if MSO is really superior to LO, at least nobody has yet
>> pointed out in what way. Just claiming that it is better does not
>> cut it. The MS supporters at least should be able to tell us
>> *exactly* what really *is* superior. I have not yet found anything
>> at all
>
> Screencasting!
>
> Seriously though, Word allows me to rotate an image in any angle
> without needing to open up a different program. To me, that's pretty nea
> t.

Marek just posted a video showing an extension for LibreOffice which does
that. Does not allow for rotation in real time... and he did not show with
an image using transparency... but still a pretty cool extension.

[Steve Carroll]

On Sunday, February 12, 2017 at 3:54:40 PM UTC-7, Marek Novotny wrote:

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